By: Christopher Duda

Oct 24, 2005

Toronto, Canada

SugarBuzz Magazine

1. Degeneration was your band from 1977 to 1982. Historically it seems like the Punk Rock history books have left out the fact that your band existed. Do you feel that Degeneration was lost in time? Could this be the fact that the band never released anything officially?

I do not really think Degeneration was lost in time; I have had people run into me year's later and give me a nod and a wink and say the word "Degeneration”. In fact, someone signed my site's guest book not too long ago and made mention to something that you'd only know if you were at one of the show’s. As far as history and all, we did not get the brass ring. Young, dumb, and full of cum so no record deals. What was given to us were booze, broads, and drugs. Everything a young bummed out new group needs for self-destruction.

2. You hung around and played with Johnny Thunders for a period of time. When did you initially meet him and is there any recordings that exist with the two of you playing together?

I get asked about those days a lot. Johnny and me were cool. Sometimes he'd want to party or other times just sit and talk shit. I hooked up with Johnny Thunders in Chicago around 1980.

I was still in "Degeneration" just coming in from the West Coast. I met Johnny and we talked about doing some recordings together but he was struggling and I really didn't have a label, so it never really happened. I think that would have been a good mix of writing styles and raw rock music. We did kick around some fine classic licks.

Johnny was doing an interview when I first initially met him. I asked if he wanted to smoke a joint .The problem was I didn’t have any papers so I stepped out to track some down. When I returned Johnny was holding some papers in his hand. I thought he was fucking me around (laughs). We hung out anytime we were in the same city after that (laughs).

Walter Lure and I were talking one time of recording later when Johnny came in yelling at Lure .I split before exchanging numbers. Hey Walter! Call me. You got to love the N.Y.Dolls and Heartbreakers.

I had the luck of jamming a bit with Johnny backstage at a few different venues. He was playing with Wayne Kramer in Gang War and Johnny didn't have a guitar with him so he used a Dan Armstrong that was a friend Don’s (soon to join Degeneration). Don was also doing an interview for a school radio show and got to interview Johnny. I sat in on that interview.

On that night also a woman was in the front watching the show (and drinking a lot!), turns out she was with the Sun Times newspaper. Moreover, she was there to review Johnny's show. She took my number and calls me the next day. She can’t remember a thing about the show the previous night so she ends up doing an interview with Degeneration and myself! So if it wasn't for Johnny, Degeneration would never have received the coverage in a major newspaper. I thank Johnny Thunders for that everyday!

I think one of the last times I hooked up with Johnny was in the late Eighties. He was in bad shape, stopping in the middle of songs to comb his hair. Nobody backstage was in great spirits. Johnny was tweaking’, Lure was bitchin’ and everyone else just stood there watching the freak show. The merry go round had become derailed. I had seen Johnny do a lot of wild stuff on stage in the past and make it happen but sadly this was not what I witnessed this time. I was amazed that when Johnny died Rolling Stone magazine only had a real short fact sheet about his death. In the end Johnny Thunders was the guywho’s sound and image shaped and sparked a generation!

4. Reflecting back on the New York Dolls and Johnny Thunders why do you think they are held in high esteem today?

Well the Dolls were original and paved roads for many people to come after them. They were true pioneers. They were a prototype for Punk. I think Johnny got sucked into club land where he revelled for years before his death. You have to do what your heart and soul tell you to do and not what some greasy schmuck is telling you to do. Mind you, look if you follow that path you can be successful too …look at Aerosmith and Kiss!

5. You also were friends with Stiv Bators. Where did you initially meet him?

I met Stiv in Cleveland around the time The Dead Boys got signed to Sire. Later we met again in N.Y.C. I've seen some pictures of us together but I don't know where they were taken possibly in Cleveland. I didn't see Stiv again until he was doing The Lords of the New Church stuff with Brian James from The Damned. I never got to jam with those cats though.

6. Like many early Punk bands of the time most didn’t realize that others were doing the same thing in other cities. What was the early Chicago scene like for Degeneration?

That’s the funny thing, the Southside of Chicago didn't even know what Punk was! Mind you when Degeneration first existed the Punk label didn’t exist! You had to get the fuck out of Dodge. That’s why we were so lucky to get to the West Coast and to play the Vegas Strip.

A guy that at the time was a writer for T.V. promoted us. He actually wrote for the show “Laugh In”. We performed at some outside summer festivals with groups like Boz Scaggs, Fleetwood Mac and shit like that. What it had to do with Punk I'll never know! I felt more like a movie star than an addicted Punk Rocker.

7. How did a writer for “Laugh In” end up promoting you?

This woman came to Chicago to see us and put us in a small studio to record a demo. She then took the demo to L.A. and had some guy listen to it; he in turn was connected to this wise guy in Las Vegas. All of a sudden, airfare is waiting at the airport and we’re showcasing at the Sahara! Better yet, they kept inviting us back. Hell, I called a suite at the Golden Nugget home! Mountains of drugs, scores of chicks and kegs of booze kept flowing. A good way to kill a young band quickly!

8. According to your website you were the first documented Punk band to play the Las Vegas Strip. Any memories of gigs from that time?

Well we played in L.A. and everybody in the crowd was beating the shit out of each other! People were rolling across the floor, kickin’ ass and someone fell through some kind of plate glass window! In fact, that same gig someone tried to pull me off the stage by my leg, Chip and Crepid cut 'em off me with their guitar necks. I ended up smashing a bottle over that guys head.

9. Whatever happened to the original members of Degeneration and what eventually broke the band up? Did bad management play a part in the break up of Degeneration?

Chick grew up to be Chip Z’Nuff of Enuff Z'nuff. I gave Chip that name “Chick” because as a kid, I was into Ten Years After with Alvin Lee and the keyboardists name was Chick Churchill. Anyways, the drummer never played again to my knowledge. I think he turned into a local politician, I always knew something was wrong with him! Crepid was an ex drinker who thought it best to start up again, he was drinking more then you could believe. I saw him drink a fifth in one up! I think he is now deceased. Management, girlfriends, and a lot of others drank themselves to death or went insane. I am currently working on my third solo release since I was in the group "Junebug". I am trying not to over medicate or drink myself to death!

The management was a fucking joke. They didn't have a clue in all honesty of how to run the show. People hanging around us were trying to pull us all in different directions. The team spirit started to wane quickly.

They gave us credit cards for liquor store's, not a good idea! I tend to remember that drummer boy started going to parties and not soon after, he was chasing the dragon. Another problem was that the Punk scenes between N.Y., L.A, and the U.K were not from the same mould. In an essence, there was no understanding what made the other tick.

I don't know why we based ourselves out of L.A. and Vegas. We were going for the big prize I guess. The L.A. Punk scene was stupid back then and we really didn’t fit into the narrow-minded way of thinking. Keep in mind we were Chicago boys. It was hard to keep it together.